Legislature(2007 - 2008)BARNES 124
01/28/2008 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB267 | |
| HB336 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 267 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 336 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 267-WILDLIFE VIOLATOR COMPACT 1:04:56 PM CO-CHAIR JOHNSON announced that the first order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 267, "An Act relating to authorizing the state to join with other states entering into the Wildlife Violator Compact and authorizing the compact to supersede existing statutes by approving standards, rules, or other action under the terms of the compact; and directing the initiation of civil actions to revoke appropriate licenses in this state based on a resident licensee's violation of or failure to comply with the terms of a wildlife resource citation issued in another state that is a party to the compact." CO-CHAIR JOHNSON stated his intention to take public testimony and answer questions on HB 267, then move the bill during a future meeting. 1:07:16 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO moved to adopt HB 267, Version O, labeled 25- LS0864\O, Kane, 1/24/08, as the working document. There being no objection, Version O was before the committee. 1:07:41 PM JEANNE OSTNES, Staff to Representative Johnson, Alaska State Legislature, directed the committee's attention to the sectional analysis for Version O. She explained that Section 1 of the bill sets out the provisions of the Wildlife Violator Compact. Article I of the compact states the policy and purpose behind the compact and what member states aim to achieve by joining the compact. Article II sets out the definitions of terms used in the compact. Ms. Ostnes noted that on page 5 of Version O, lines 21-24 provide the compact's definition for wildlife, and that Brian Kane, attorney for Legislative Legal and Research Services, added lines 24-27 as follows: Species included in the definition of wildlife vary from state to state and a determination of whether a species is wildlife for the purposes of this compact must be based on local law. In this state, "wildlife" means all species of fish and game as these terms are defined in AS 16.05.940. MS. OSTNES said Article III describes the procedures to be followed by a state issuing a citation to a person for a wildlife violation. Article IV outlines the procedures for the home state of a person issued a wildlife violation in another compact state. Article V declares that all states that are parties to the compact will recognize a suspension of license privileges as if it happened in their states. Article VI provides that the compact shall not affect the right of a member state to apply its own local laws or practices in wildlife enforcement. 1:10:53 PM CO-CHAIR JOHNSON, in response to Representative Guttenberg, stated that Al Cain, Captain Waldron, members of other wildlife compact states, and Brian Kane are present. MS. OSTNES continued reviewing the sectional analysis. Article VII describes the board of compact administrators and the role of the board. Article VIII provides for entry into and withdrawal from the compact. Article IX states that amendments may be made to the compact. Article X states that the compact should be liberally construed to carry out its purpose, and that the provisions of the compact are severable in order to keep remaining provisions in effect. Article XI states the title of the compact. MS. OSTNES explained that Section 2 is the portion of HB 267 that is specifically for the state of Alaska. She related that a [conceptual] amendment was previously brought forward by Representative Seaton regarding commercial fishing activities and this is included in Version O on page 10, line 23, paragraph (1). In drafting the bill, Mr. Kane also included commercial activities of providers of services to big game hunters [page 10, lines 24-26]. However, this was not what the sponsor had indicated, so Mr. Kane will have an amendment to the committee within the hour. MS. OSTNES noted that Section 3 of the bill provides the procedure for peace officers in the state of Alaska to file an action for revocation of a fishing or hunting license to comply with the terms of the compact. She noted that trapping is included along with fishing and hunting. 1:14:06 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO inquired as to whether "peace officer" is defined. MS. OSTNES replied that it is defined in statute, but she did not know the specific citation. CO-CHAIR GATTO asked whether "peace officer" would apply to a Village Public Safety Officer (VPSO). BURKE WALDRON, Captain, Central Office, Division of Alaska Wildlife Troopers, said he believes it would apply, but is looking it up right now. 1:15:18 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO inquired whether it is intentional that Section 2 not apply to commercial fishing and commercial hunting activities. MS. OSTNES explained that the committee wanted it to apply only to commercial fishing, which was Representative Seaton's amendment passed at the [January 18, 2008,] hearing. However, the drafter also included commercial hunting which was not the committee's desire. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON said the committee wished to exclude commercial fishing but not big game guides and outfitters, thus the forthcoming amendment will delete the big game guides and outfitters. CO-CHAIR GATTO asked why one but not the other. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON explained that the existing compact is related to sport hunting and fishing activities and expanding it into commercial fishing goes beyond the bounds of intent of the original compact. Commercial fishing has a separate body of law with a whole separate set of statutes and punishments. He said it was easier to clarify that this excludes commercial fishing than to be the only member of the compact that includes it. 1:16:50 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO inquired whether running a guide service for fishing is considered commercial fishing. CAPTAIN WALDRON said no. In response to Co-Chair Gatto's earlier question, Captain Waldron cited AS 16.05.150 and said that VPSOs would have limited enforcement authorities from the commissioner; thus, in his opinion, they would be considered peace officers. 1:17:58 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO asked whether "designated by the commissioner" is a variable opportunity for the commissioner or something that is well established by the commissioner as to who qualifies for peace officer. He asked whether peace officer is a certain level of authority. CAPTAIN WALDRON answered that to enforce laws in Alaska, a person must be a commissioned law enforcement officer or a commissioned peace officer and that those terms are kind of used interchangeably. Commissioned means that the person has a commission from the commissioner of the Department of Public Safety. Some authorized commissions are limited or restricted commissions; for example, VPSOs are limited for the most part to misdemeanors only, they do not have enforcement authority for felonies. Another example would be federal department officers that have limited commissions to enforce state laws on federal lands. 1:19:44 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO inquired whether peace officers are allowed or obligated to carry weapons. CAPTAIN WALDRON replied that some peace officers are allowed, but he did not believe there is any obligation. 1:20:07 PM MS. OSTNES noted that the following language was deleted from the title: "and authorizing the compact to supersede existing statutes by approving standards, rules, or other action under the terms of the compact". REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG requested further clarification regarding Articles V and VI of Section 1. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON said the intent was to clarify that Alaska is not subjugating its statutes and its ability to make laws to this compact, that Alaska still has the ultimate authority over what is legal and illegal within the state. 1:22:29 PM REPRESENTATIVE WILSON advised that if the commercial activities for big game hunters is deleted from page 10, it will also need to do be deleted in the title. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON said that is the intention. AL CAIN, Criminal Justice Planner, Statewide Law Enforcement Specialist, Division of Sport Fish, Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), stated that he will be happy to answer any questions. 1:23:40 PM MIKE FOWLKS, Law Enforcement Chief, Division of Wildlife Resources, Utah Department of Natural Resources, informed the committee that Utah has been a member of the compact for 14 years. He said Utah has enjoyed the benefit of its officers not having to arrest people or haul them to the local magistrate for bail collection or adjudication in cases involving nonresidents from compact states. He said there are lots of folks from other states who like to hunt Utah who have been convicted in their home states or other states in the compact, and Utah has honored those suspensions and kept the violators from partaking in Utah's recreational opportunities. That provides a benefit to the legitimate sportsmen, resident and nonresident alike, because it takes the violators out of the pool for the limited permits that are available. 1:25:10 PM REPRESENTATIVE ROSES asked whether Utah, since joining the compact, has seen an increase in the number of violations for people hunting without a license that are nonresidents. CHIEF FOWLKS replied no, there has been no appreciable change in the percentage of those violations. 1:25:28 PM REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG inquired as to who is the appointed compact administrator in Utah under Article VII. CHIEF FOWLKS answered that the director of the Division of Wildlife Resources appoints the compact administrator and that he is currently the administrator. In further response to Representative Guttenberg, Chief Fowlks explained that the compact administrators from the current 26 member states meet to conduct business once a year at the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies meetings. He said a President, Vice President, and Secretary are nominated and elected by the 26 member states. 1:27:05 PM REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG asked how often the compact has been amended. CHIEF FOWLKS responded that the compact was updated at the last meeting to reflect the changes in the manual that occurred in the database. He said this is the first time it has been changed in the four years that he has been compact administrator. 1:27:58 PM REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG said he understands changes in how to deal with the database, but inquired as to the ability to amend the compact itself and how that would work. CHIEF FOWLKS explained that if a state wants to amend the process as far as the compact is concerned and the compact manual, the state would have to make a proposal at the meeting with all 26 members and a majority of the states would have to agree to the change. 1:29:07 PM REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH recalled reading that all states had to agree for a change to occur, not a majority. She noted that Article IX, subsection (b), page 10 of Version O, reads ["all party states"] CHIEF FOWLKS said he is speaking from memory and so may have misspoken because there have not been any changes and he therefore does not know if amendments require all or a majority. He deferred to the other compact representatives. REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH understood that it must be unanimous, so what Chief Fowlks was talking about was updating the manual and the process that the manual and database use, a procedural step and a compact change which is an administrative change. She said any other changes to the compact itself require the support of all states, so one state could hold out and there would not be a change. 1:31:13 PM ROB BUONAMICI, Chief Game Warden, Nevada Department of Wildlife (NDOW), informed the committee that Nevada was one of the first three states to form the nucleus of the compact. He was present at that time and has been personally involved in the entire process, including chairman for 10 years. In addition to the benefits pointed out by Mr. Fowlks, he noted that another benefit is helping to stop the poaching of species that require the purchase of special tags for hunting. For example, out-of- state hunters would poach in Nevada and then put a Colorado tag on the animal to make it look legitimate. The compact makes it difficult for a convicted poacher to purchase tags for this type of illegal use. He said that soon after the compact was first established he received phone calls from hunters asking if it was true that their hunting privileges would be revoked in all compact states if they were convicted in one compact state. This shows that the poachers have taken notice and the compact has an impact, he advised. 1:34:14 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO asked whether any state has applied and been rejected from the compact. CHIEF BUONAMICI responded no. 1:34:36 PM REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH inquired whether any of the other compact states noticed a decrease in the number of in-state violations after joining the compact. CHIEF BUONAMICI answered that Nevada saw a small initial decrease, but mainly what has been seen is a shift in methods of operation by the poachers. The poachers realize what is at stake and are much more secretive and are trying to avoid being caught. However, he said, poachers like to brag and that is how they end up being caught eventually. CHIEF FOWLKS agreed with Chief Buonamici. 1:36:28 PM REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH asked whether Alaska's proposal to exempt commercial fishing will affect the other compact states. CHIEF BUONAMICI replied that it does not affect Nevada; it is left to the individual states. Commercial fishing has not been addressed at this point, he said, but there has been discussion at compact meetings to look at addressing this aspect, particularly with coastal states. REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH said she questioned [Alaska's commercial fishing] exemption. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON said [the committee] wanted to limit this to sport fishing and hunting, but if the compact was to make a decision on commercial fishing it would be up to each individual state to decide whether to include it. 1:38:36 PM REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG noted that Representative Seaton's amendment would exclude commercial fishing from the compact. Could commercial fishing include someone in Utah with a guide service, he asked. He also asked whether Alaska can amend the compact itself. BRIAN KANE, Attorney, Legislative Legal and Research Services, Legislative Affairs Agency, responded that substantive changes could not be made by Alaska to alter the compact, but states have the option to exclude certain things from the compact, such as commercial fishing that is particular to a state. 1:39:44 PM REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON directed attention to page 4 of Version O [line 28, subsection (f)] which defines home state as "the state of primary residence of a person". He posed a situation in which a California resident moves to Alaska and has been in the state for six months. He inquired whether the person's primary residence under the terms of the compact would still be California. MR. KANE said he is not sure. He noted that the definition for obtaining a resident fish or game license in Alaska is 12 months. In further response to Representative Edgmon, Mr. Kane said he would have to research further as to whether Alaska would be considered the person's home state during this time period. 1:41:43 PM REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON inquired as to how Alaska would withdraw from the compact since it is the legislative branch that is enabling the state to participate. Who within the state would be responsible for making the withdrawal, he asked, the executive branch, the compact administrator, or the state agency. MR. KANE said he is unsure what would happen if someone not in the legislature decided to withdraw the state, but taking the compact out of Alaska statute would likely require legislative action to repeal statute. REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON asked whether it is necessary to include in the bill that it requires legislative action to take the statutes off the book, or is that implicit. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON said he did not believe it would be necessary to include because it would take an act of the legislature to remove it from the books and any legislature can override a previous legislature. He did not think it could be removed administratively. MR. KANE responded it would go hand-in-hand that the statutes would be repealed by the legislature prior to any notice of withdrawal from the compact. 1:44:06 PM REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON asked whether the compact administrator would be required to obtain permission from the legislature prior to withdrawing the state from the compact. MR. KANE said other documents have the rules and duties of the compact administrator and he is not familiar with what the rule is between the administrator and the legislature as far as the compact goes. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON opined that it would not be an issue because it would be a substantive act if someone attempted to withdraw the state without the legislature's approval. 1:45:30 PM REPRESENTATIVE ROSES advised that active-duty military personnel under a permanent change of station to Alaska are immediately qualified to purchase a resident fishing and small game hunting license and therefore do not have to wait the 12 months. Thus, he said, there is a difference between being a resident and having a resident hunting and fishing license. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON said this is exclusive to military personnel. REPRESENTATIVE ROSES reiterated that it is active-duty military. He noted that he is researching whether this would also apply to active-duty National Guard personnel because it is not specified. He said some states in the compact may have this and some may not. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON understood that military personnel would fall under the compact as Alaska residents as soon as they obtained a resident license. REPRESENTATIVE ROSES noted that this is what Representative Edgmon was bringing up. Does having a resident hunting and fishing license therefore constitute the definition of home state? The bill says primary residence and in most places a person cannot get a resident license until he or she has been a resident. Everyone needs to understand the distinction between the two definitions, he said. 1:47:27 PM REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON pointed out that there are four different definitions of state in this legislation. He said he would like to add to Representative Roses' suggestion about clarifying party state, home state, issuing state, and state. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said clarification can be made for Alaska, but that the definition of home state in the compact under Article II cannot be changed. The main issue is that a citation or license revocation will be in the compact database. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON noted that there will be pittance regardless of the state. He then opened the hearing to public testimony. 1:49:06 PM ALLEN BARRETTE stated that Alaska is not prepared at this time to be a part of the compact. He noted licenses can be purchased in Alaska in a variety of locations from guides to gas stations to grocery stores. Thus, there is no way to prevent a purchase because there would be no database set up in these locations. Alaska already has a statute barring a person with a license revocation in his or her home state from hunting in Alaska, and if such a person is caught purchasing a license there is an additional charge by the enforcement people. He said the compact is cumbersome and could be made simpler by just making the list and keeping all this language out. Alaska has a very public process through its various boards as to how regulations and ordinances are passed and accepted. He said he had not seen the compact manual. He inquired as to how much of a poaching problem there is in Alaska. Alaska's system must be working because poachers get caught, he said. It will not reduce the Department of Public Safety's workload because troopers will still be out in the field looking for violators. He said violators are given a citation with a bond and the violator must either pay the bond or appear before a judge. Mr. Barrette said he is speaking on behalf of himself and the majority of the Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Committee, but that he had not yet talked to all of the members of the committee. He pointed out that Alaska residents with a hunting license are provided a harvest ticket and not a tag, so the problem of misusing tags is moot. Many issues do not impact Alaska because of the state's remoteness from the Lower 48. He said he does not feel the compact will benefit the state of Alaska any further than the rules and regulations that are already in place and that if the state does not want to prosecute out-of-state violators it can go to the federal government for prosecution under the Lacey Act. 1:54:08 PM DICK BISHOP, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), thanked Co-Chair Johnson for introducing the bill. He said AOC has consistently supported better law enforcement in fish and wildlife matters and the compact appears to help in this regard. He noted that he did not learn of the committee substitute (CS) until this morning, so neither he nor the AOC board has reviewed the CS. He expressed concern with regard to the use of the term "preservation" because it may confuse matters in regard to the consumptive uses of fish and wildlife. He will put his other technical concerns in writing, he said. Of substantive concern in the CS is the exclusion of commercial fishing and commercial guiding operations, although he understood that the exclusion is now only for commercial fishing. A historical review of fish and game law violations shows that some of the most important and largest violations have occurred in commercial operations such as fishing and guiding, he advised, and the legislature should carefully review this. The language of the compact is very detailed and requires considerable attention to understand how it works, thus it warrants careful attention by the legislature. He said AOC supports better enforcement and the means to better enforcement, and AOC would like to see the bill undergo additional review. 1:59:27 PM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON suggested that the CS be made available on the Internet so people can comment. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON urged interested people to contact his office for a copy of Version O. Upon determining that no one else wished to testify, he closed public testimony and set aside HB 267. 2:01:10 PM REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH related her understanding that the compact administrator would have to come to the legislature to request withdrawal of the state from the compact. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON said this can be clarified in the legislation, if it is deemed necessary. REPRESENTATIVE WILSON agreed with Representative Fairclough and the need for clarification in the bill. REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH pointed out that the committee received an email challenging the constitutionality of Alaska's ability to enter into a compact with another state. She related that the subsequent legal opinion requested by the committee says that Congress allows this type of compact between states and allows the compact to not be in violation of the United States Constitution. [HB 267 was held over.]
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